Comments on: Is Discipleship Renovation or Transformation? http://www.bencotten.net/life/christian/is-discipleship-renovation-or-transformation/ This is my story and I'm sticking to it. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 06:02:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Ben http://www.bencotten.net/life/christian/is-discipleship-renovation-or-transformation/comment-page-1/#comment-2203 Ben Mon, 07 Dec 2009 22:32:31 +0000 http://www.bencotten.net/?p=1128#comment-2203 You're so right. I think Jesus would say to us, "It's ok not to be ok. It really is. But it's not ok to stay that way." He not only says that we <i>can</i> change, grow, transform but he is also the <i>agent</i> of the change. He is the one that transforms us, and he is the one that decides what the end "product" will be. Not us. The whole deal is gloriously dependant on him. You’re so right. I think Jesus would say to us, “It’s ok not to be ok. It really is. But it’s not ok to stay that way.”

He not only says that we can change, grow, transform but he is also the agent of the change. He is the one that transforms us, and he is the one that decides what the end “product” will be. Not us.

The whole deal is gloriously dependant on him.

]]> By: Kim A. http://www.bencotten.net/life/christian/is-discipleship-renovation-or-transformation/comment-page-1/#comment-2202 Kim A. Mon, 07 Dec 2009 22:22:53 +0000 http://www.bencotten.net/?p=1128#comment-2202 Ben, I really like this. I think there is another end of the spectrum, which stems from the same Jesus-voided thought pattern. We disciple someone and expect change in our time. Then if they don't change, or don't have a radical transformation after your prayer sessions and discussions, we judge our perception of their progress, or worse their level of faith. It's equally bad, when you expecting nothing or when you expect what you think is right, and in the timing that you want to see it. I have found myself there, and repenting, because it's the gospel of pride. It says, "I know better than God how to fix this person's life, so disciple 'do this'." It's that same "patch the problem" mentality you talked about, because what that person really needs is a transformation, and not a patch. It's a revelation they need, not a temporary fix. I've learned from my discipleship relationships the best thing to do is steer them toward Christ, cheer them on in victory, pray with them in repentance, and realize you wear the same flawed earth suit. Ben, I really like this. I think there is another end of the spectrum, which stems from the same Jesus-voided thought pattern. We disciple someone and expect change in our time. Then if they don’t change, or don’t have a radical transformation after your prayer sessions and discussions, we judge our perception of their progress, or worse their level of faith. It’s equally bad, when you expecting nothing or when you expect what you think is right, and in the timing that you want to see it. I have found myself there, and repenting, because it’s the gospel of pride. It says, “I know better than God how to fix this person’s life, so disciple ‘do this’.” It’s that same “patch the problem” mentality you talked about, because what that person really needs is a transformation, and not a patch. It’s a revelation they need, not a temporary fix. I’ve learned from my discipleship relationships the best thing to do is steer them toward Christ, cheer them on in victory, pray with them in repentance, and realize you wear the same flawed earth suit.

]]> By: priscilla http://www.bencotten.net/life/christian/is-discipleship-renovation-or-transformation/comment-page-1/#comment-2200 priscilla Fri, 04 Dec 2009 01:27:49 +0000 http://www.bencotten.net/?p=1128#comment-2200 "We believe the gospel is effective in yanking us from the clutches of Hell, but not much more... We think people can make improvements to their existing set of abilities, but we do NOT believe in transformation." I think you are right. I think this is the very heart of why the "church" is so ineffective - at least the way we currently do "church". If we do not actually believe Jesus will transform us, how in the world can we ever be His disciple and believe He'll transform others? In reading through scripture, I see God transforming many lives - why won't we believe that He will do the same today? Great post Ben. You have put into words what's been in my heart for a very long time. “We believe the gospel is effective in yanking us from the clutches of Hell, but not much more… We think people can make improvements to their existing set of abilities, but we do NOT believe in transformation.”

I think you are right. I think this is the very heart of why the “church” is so ineffective – at least the way we currently do “church”. If we do not actually believe Jesus will transform us, how in the world can we ever be His disciple and believe He’ll transform others?

In reading through scripture, I see God transforming many lives – why won’t we believe that He will do the same today?

Great post Ben. You have put into words what’s been in my heart for a very long time.

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